Who are the Turks?
Azeri turks claim that the real turks are mongols. Uzbecks have an asiatic look and they are really turks. Azeris have a "caucasian" look and that is why they are not turks. They even go further and claim "Uzbecks are Persians who are mixed with Mongols". So who are the Turks?
There are about over 40 different types of Turks
Lets see starting from Eastern Europe and Anatolia there are Gagauz, Bulgarians Turks, Dobrujan Tatars, Turks of Greece, Cypriot Turks, Anatolian Turks, Iraqi Turkomans and the Crimean Tatars. In Western Asia and the Northern Caucasus region, Azeris, Iranian Azeris, Khalaj, Qashqai(Turkish speaking Persian-Parthians), Iranian Turkmen, Balkar and Karachay, Nogay, and the Kumuk. In Central Asia theres Afghani Uzbeks, Afghani Turkmen, Uzbeks, Turkmen, Qazaqs, Karakalpaks, Kyrgyz, Uyghurs, Salars, Sari Yugurs. In the Volga Ural region there are Tatars, Bashkirs, Chuvash, Siberian Tatars. In Southern Siberia there are Shors, Altay Kiji, Telengit, Teleut, Tuba, Kumandi, Chalkandu, Khakas, Tyvans, Tofa, Tsengel Tuvans and the Dukha. Finally in Northern Siberia and Easter China, Sakha, Dolgans and the Fuyu Kyrgyz.
Bulgarian Turks and Anatolian Turks may speak the same or similar language but they are different types of Turks and have different modern histories as well as different identities.
Quote:ones that live in central asia who have an oriental feature to them tracing them to be direct decendents of those of Mongolia and those of Turkey who have a very Caucasian feature to them.
I was thinking that the original natives of Anatolia (hitties, Lydians, etc...) where forced into speaking turkish when the Seljuk Turks had control of the area, which we have noticed to be true with the Azari's who are of Iranian origin but were forced into speaking Turkish.
Its important to understand that you cant force people to change their language. UNLESS you take them away from their own cultural environment away from their own people and only teach them a different language. Otherwise so long as they have native speaking mothers, fathers, friends and neighbours their language will not change. Any change in language that took place would have happened without force as a result of Turkish cultural and political domination. This is further backed up by the fact that many languages are spoken in Turkey today, such as Laz Hemshin, Zaza, Kurdish etc.
There was no "forced" Turkification by the Seljuks just as there were no Hittites or Lydians in existance by the time the Turks had arrived.
Ethnic Turks in Turkey are Turkish. One of many different "types" of Turks.
Let's clear up a few misconceptions.
Turks arn't Mongols, the early Turks lived in a region including Western Mongolia, Altai-Sayan region (todays Russia, Kazakistan) and the northern parts of Eastern Turkistan.
The present day Mongols were not living in that region during that period.
The early Turks inhabitted a region of the world in which to the East of them populations are more Mongoloid and to the West more Caucosoid (even though these terms are pretty archaic today). Chinese sources differentiate Turks from themselves and observed that the "looked different".
Thus the Turks being inbetween have characteristics from both, if you actually went to Turkic Central Asia historic Turkistan you would realise that Turks there are different looking Turks.
There are peoples in Northern Afganistan, Oz'bekistan, Turkmenistan who look similar to Turks in Azerbaijan or Turkey, then there are some Turks in Kazakistan and Kirgizistan who you will find don't look similar.
Quote:we have noticed to be true with the Azari's who are of Iranian origin but were forced into speaking Turkish
Which we? who is we, show me one credible scholar who supports this absolutely ridiculous claim.
The Turks of Iran are Turks, what is "Iranian origin"? there are Arabs, Persians, Kurds, Baluch, Turks in Iran so what are you implying by Iranian origin.
According to your logic, Persians are of Elamite origin but were forced into speaking Persian.
Also Azeri Turks were never "forced" into speaking Turkish, in case you didn't know, the Seljuk state languages of governance were Arabic and Persian.
Mongolian languages is not even in the same family as Azeri Turkish language. You can see this in the following language map.
Now are you going to tell me that the Seljuks came and magically some people just learned Turkish? they didn't learn Turkish in schools, it wasn't the language of governance, it wasn't the language of law but somehow despite all of this millions of people just said, you know what we'll just become Turks?
They are Turks due to the Oghuz Turk clans which migrated to the region and never lost their language, identity, clan structure etc.
When the Seljuk state ended, many Beyliks and Atabeyliks were found, each by various Oghuz Turk clans, this pattern could be witnessed across Iran and Turkey.
Azeri turks claim that the real turks are mongols. Uzbecks have an asiatic look and they are really turks. Azeris have a "caucasian" look and that is why they are not turks. They even go further and claim "Uzbecks are Persians who are mixed with Mongols". So who are the Turks?
There are about over 40 different types of Turks
Lets see starting from Eastern Europe and Anatolia there are Gagauz, Bulgarians Turks, Dobrujan Tatars, Turks of Greece, Cypriot Turks, Anatolian Turks, Iraqi Turkomans and the Crimean Tatars. In Western Asia and the Northern Caucasus region, Azeris, Iranian Azeris, Khalaj, Qashqai(Turkish speaking Persian-Parthians), Iranian Turkmen, Balkar and Karachay, Nogay, and the Kumuk. In Central Asia theres Afghani Uzbeks, Afghani Turkmen, Uzbeks, Turkmen, Qazaqs, Karakalpaks, Kyrgyz, Uyghurs, Salars, Sari Yugurs. In the Volga Ural region there are Tatars, Bashkirs, Chuvash, Siberian Tatars. In Southern Siberia there are Shors, Altay Kiji, Telengit, Teleut, Tuba, Kumandi, Chalkandu, Khakas, Tyvans, Tofa, Tsengel Tuvans and the Dukha. Finally in Northern Siberia and Easter China, Sakha, Dolgans and the Fuyu Kyrgyz.
Bulgarian Turks and Anatolian Turks may speak the same or similar language but they are different types of Turks and have different modern histories as well as different identities.
Quote:ones that live in central asia who have an oriental feature to them tracing them to be direct decendents of those of Mongolia and those of Turkey who have a very Caucasian feature to them.
I was thinking that the original natives of Anatolia (hitties, Lydians, etc...) where forced into speaking turkish when the Seljuk Turks had control of the area, which we have noticed to be true with the Azari's who are of Iranian origin but were forced into speaking Turkish.
Its important to understand that you cant force people to change their language. UNLESS you take them away from their own cultural environment away from their own people and only teach them a different language. Otherwise so long as they have native speaking mothers, fathers, friends and neighbours their language will not change. Any change in language that took place would have happened without force as a result of Turkish cultural and political domination. This is further backed up by the fact that many languages are spoken in Turkey today, such as Laz Hemshin, Zaza, Kurdish etc.
There was no "forced" Turkification by the Seljuks just as there were no Hittites or Lydians in existance by the time the Turks had arrived.
Ethnic Turks in Turkey are Turkish. One of many different "types" of Turks.
Let's clear up a few misconceptions.
Turks arn't Mongols, the early Turks lived in a region including Western Mongolia, Altai-Sayan region (todays Russia, Kazakistan) and the northern parts of Eastern Turkistan.
The present day Mongols were not living in that region during that period.
The early Turks inhabitted a region of the world in which to the East of them populations are more Mongoloid and to the West more Caucosoid (even though these terms are pretty archaic today). Chinese sources differentiate Turks from themselves and observed that the "looked different".
Thus the Turks being inbetween have characteristics from both, if you actually went to Turkic Central Asia historic Turkistan you would realise that Turks there are different looking Turks.
There are peoples in Northern Afganistan, Oz'bekistan, Turkmenistan who look similar to Turks in Azerbaijan or Turkey, then there are some Turks in Kazakistan and Kirgizistan who you will find don't look similar.
Quote:we have noticed to be true with the Azari's who are of Iranian origin but were forced into speaking Turkish
Which we? who is we, show me one credible scholar who supports this absolutely ridiculous claim.
The Turks of Iran are Turks, what is "Iranian origin"? there are Arabs, Persians, Kurds, Baluch, Turks in Iran so what are you implying by Iranian origin.
According to your logic, Persians are of Elamite origin but were forced into speaking Persian.
Also Azeri Turks were never "forced" into speaking Turkish, in case you didn't know, the Seljuk state languages of governance were Arabic and Persian.
Mongolian languages is not even in the same family as Azeri Turkish language. You can see this in the following language map.
Now are you going to tell me that the Seljuks came and magically some people just learned Turkish? they didn't learn Turkish in schools, it wasn't the language of governance, it wasn't the language of law but somehow despite all of this millions of people just said, you know what we'll just become Turks?
They are Turks due to the Oghuz Turk clans which migrated to the region and never lost their language, identity, clan structure etc.
When the Seljuk state ended, many Beyliks and Atabeyliks were found, each by various Oghuz Turk clans, this pattern could be witnessed across Iran and Turkey.
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